tv [untitled] May 12, 2011 9:30am-10:00am EDT
war of all does all james bond with than all the actual information in. the bank you. know all the big will around the world. may be. five thirty pm in moscow these are your r.t. headlines egypt's revolution fact buyers are cross the border with israel now concerned with a sudden reconciliation of two of palestine's factions the ousting of president mubarak made it possible for cairo to broker a historic deal between rival fatah and hamas. a german court finds a former nazi death camp guard john demjanjuk guilty of accessory to war crimes these include execution of thousands of jews during world war two the ninety one
year old was said to five years in prison but is released pending an appeal. and the president medvedev meets his pakistani counterpart to see how these adare to tackle threats both nations face talking the list of terrorism and drug trafficking . up next in our special report we look at how cleaning up war zones can be a booming but risky business stay with us here on archer. hello again kind of walk and talk like going to the shelf and part time i'll bring up my guest on the show is take much. the killing of osama bin ladin time american troops has launched a new debate about global security has the world become a safer place the death of the al qaeda leader sparked new reprisals and new violence here to help answer this is the director of the center for conflict in the
studies and a cousin of the afghan president. ten years ago two passenger jets hijacked by al-qaeda terrorists crashed into the buildings of the world trade center new york killing thousands of people the man who claimed responsibility for the attack topped the u.s. most wanted list from then on u.s. military finally hundred in down and killed him but his death has raised many questions was it necessary to kill bin laden rather than capture and try him and what will the world be after osama and there are no easy answers. hello mr curtis i welcome to the show thank you very much for being with us thank you thank you for the well first of all the u.s. celebrated the killing of bin laden as a major major victory do you consider the assassination of al qaeda leader.
the turning point the u.s. war against terror so. first of all i believe the killing of a solo was a major success and a victory not just for the united states but for the region at the same time i don't think it's. turning point for the global war on terrorism or for anything. what osama bin laden created in one thousand eight hundred eight as a as an organization has gone to become a network and the network has almost become an ideology no so just killing one person does not really deal with the global war on terror so so we're not talking about the end of the war and i mean i mean there may be there may be an end but but none in the forseeable future it's absolutely not i don't think this is the end of al qaeda because of how that has various charismatic commanders are not only in
afghanistan and pakistan but throughout the world there is over isn't the only terrorist organization that exactly. this bin ladin really play a. significant world in coordinating all the efforts lately were as some say after a hearty was forced to go undercover after you was forced to go underground he his role was more symbolic my assessment in terms of being on the ground and understanding what seems to be happening i think he very much played the role of a motivator the more role of someone who provided ideological ideological guidance rather than operational guidance i think since two thousand and five since he's been living in abbottabad i think his road has been in many different levels just providing very different videos and audios to his followers for motivational purposes well euphoric some abrasions in the u.s.
over the death of manhattan have given way to skepticism conspiracy theories and theories are growing terrorist spotlights in the media has more and. the worst terror attack in u.s. history the horrific nine eleven attacks in new york and washington left some three thousand people dead and created a perception that no place in earth is safe from the threat of extremism it took the u.s. ten years to locate and eliminate the mosque the mind behind the atrocity denouncement of bin laden's death sparked a massive abrasions in the united states but when in the show euphoria subsided questions started to emerge. washington's refusal to release it was photographed was considered suspicious that was for a declaration by the rainey an intelligence minister who claimed it is some of bin laden was not actually killed by u.s.
troops who died from unknowns. pakistan and the u.s. has been send in our mutual accusations islamabad blames washington for not informing it about the raid the u.s. in turn suspects pakistani agents could have had more information on the al-qaeda leaders whereabouts than they were revealing and besides there's still the question of whether world without bin laden is really safe for police skeptics argue al-qaeda is a network of autonomy's groups that can function perfectly without a formal figure and some analysts believe bin laden's death could actually lead to further escalation of violence is there is terrorist organizations really try to think she's down. but actually america has become a safer place have a sense nine eleven there hasn't been a single major terrorist act in the united states because of the measures taken do you think that now we can we can we should be waiting for revenge may
america. become the next target of a terrorist attack maybe from a car itself i think at this stage it's probably true early to assess whether there will be serious attacks there have been various groups that have been various different movie roles will there be efforts to the absolutely absolutely there will be a first by various different groups to try to develop the death of bin laden but at the same time what you have to understand is that i think the various measures that have been taken by the united states have learned to be a more safer place but very recently almost about a year ago we had a major attack if you had actually. in materialized with particularly with with the times square bomber who is an individual who originally was born in pakistan and then grew up in the united states so the threat is not just about individuals the members coming from the outside it's members it's individuals that have been
radicalized there are actually american citizens there also pose a very serious threat. because i you mentioned you mentioned other. figures you know kind of other people who take over as leaders as ation pleading being ideological becoming ideological leaders as bin laden himself as the can you can name these people do we know them yeah absolutely i think there's several key figures that potentially could take over bin laden's position in the first individual. who by training is a doctor he is an egyptian who joined some of bin laden in one thousand nine hundred six after he was released from the egyptian prison and he has been allegedly named as the number two of al-qaeda by osama bin laden in addition to that we also have an individual by the name of by the name of our libya who and
libyan quite a charismatic guy very outspoken individual so these are two individuals that could replace and love them but you have to understand is that both of them do not have the charisma and particularly the charm that bin laden had in terms of mobilizing and recruiting people well the current commander of the u.s. forces in afghanistan general trends said i quote i'm on zoe who you mentioned is no assam of inland and ground meaning here is not charismatic at all well you said he lacks bin ladin's charisma that but general petraeus says he's not and you should be charismatic to play the role of bin ladin's. so do you agree with such downgrading the sense of i do i do agree with what general petraeus has said and i have heard the various sermons and the various discourses that have been produced by amabel's about it for the past decade or so and it's very difficult to
compare osama bin laden. had it because they're two different individuals you know one is really the ideologues mean homeowners who are he is basically a person who provides motivational guidance he gives a lot of sermons a lot of you know speeches about what the world is going through he's the one who has written one of the most important books in the. history book is titled the night under the banner of the prophet where he strategizes his strategy against the west but clearly achievements that bin laden was responsible for gives him such a grand figure but i was writing falls a really short of this al qaida needs to figure because we generally so we've been talking for for a long time now there are al qaeda there actually isn't an organization this is a big cartel of different organizations who work individually so so do they need a person i'd be like maybe he has already played this role but i think the
understanding on there really is that it's three separate things it's an organization it's a network a syndicate exactly and most importantly has become an ideology so for the organization you may need a leader a leader could be i mean as well you wouldn't really someone else but particularly for the network and for the ideology of it you do they really need someone in the caliber of bin laden because the ideology has already spread i mean there are lots of people that are already buying to this ideology and it's all our responsibility now to look at ideology and see how we can use it so he may be like karl marx who has spread his ideology of communism and passed away and then we had lenin trotsky stallin whoever. yes ok i'm not sure of the comparison. isn't there is this is dangerous absolutely i think it does it lasted for more than seventy years they are absolutely but you also have to understand is that i think what we have been able to do and particularly the voices of of al qaeda are slowly starting to you know dimmed slowly slowly starting to to be reduced and
particularly i think if you look at what's happening in the arab world and many of the young generations that are coming out they're not talking about radicalism there not talking about militant islam but what they're really talking about is liberal ideas of freedom and democracy and things like that so this i think is the greatest defeat of al qaeda that all these young generations are popping about other things rather than what bin laden and his you know minions were talking about . bin laden was pretty rich guy and he was a member of a rich saudi family so after his death will the money for. continue and also the time between al qaida and saudi arabia will they will they still be there i think the money that has been coming to our part of the world has been something that has been systematic since the one nine hundred eighty s. since the business stands against the former soviet union there was extensive
amount of money that was brought in through which a lot of moderates eyes were created to teach various different ideologies but at the same time i think because of one personality i don't think the funding will stop i think funding will continue because they are personalities who believe that what they loved and was doing what al qaeda was doing was the right thing so they will continue to provide assistance and the funding so heck my kind of zine director of the center for a conflict and peace and he said it can stand and a cousin of the afghan president. will be back shortly we'll continue this exhibit after a short break so stay with us. a cluster mission. and inside the container you have a small bomb and you can have anywhere from dozens up to hundreds of them there's
a huge market right now for battle area clearance because there are a lot of countries in the world that are contaminated by unexploded ordinance. and so you've got these companies and n.g.o.s that have basically shrunk that have an expertise to get rid of these weapons what they do is they go to these places they will hire local train the locals how to do the clearance they'll let the locals basically take ownership because you know they have a vested interest in clearing their homes and they're putting themselves at risk every single day when they go out there to clear areas of. a. big.
welcome back to spotlight i'm al green oven just a reminder that my guest today is head butt kinds are the director are the center for conflict and peace studies in advance then and president of the afghan president. of which consequences will the death bed biden which were discussing today which consequences would have for afghanistan for the situation the country for the political situation the country i believe the most important opportunity they are provides to afghanistan is really to further push
the political reconciliation track on the ground if you recall after nine eleven one of the key demands of the united states was to surrender bin laden and the taliban rejected their demands what is happening now is that since bin laden is caught obviously the palawan do not owe anything to al qaeda so potentially destructive of political reconciliation could further be expanded and opportunity for a political settlement could be near in the immediate future under which circumstances you mentioned the taliban under which circumstances do you think your brother's government kazai his government she could and should start their red negotiations start talking with the tell the government has been very clear about what are the demands and what are some of the red lines for negotiation and there are three red lights first you know violence break your ties with al qaeda and accept the afghan
constitution if these three elements if these three demands are met most the individuals fighting are welcome to come back to the society and if these are not met i think the alternative is quite harsh will they ever be met do you think this is possible well i think there are discussions there are discussions that are taking place and you have to understand is that afghanistan has gone through you know three decades of violence and so on both sides you know people are tired of the. and they want to live in a peaceful environment if you get a picture get centuries of what chile's. we've heard forty years of relatively calm and relative stability so so people take that into two to one of the golden areas of afghanistan but at least for the past three decades we've had several generations that have been brought up as you know as as you know a generation that could basically servers as foot soldiers for anybody's army ok now there is an opinion that foreign occupation for him presence in afghanistan is
only fueling the taliban insurgency well you agree with that well actually no i do not necessarily agree with you have to understand is that the international community is in afghanistan under the u.n. mandate the u.n. has given specific recommendations in terms of how to proceed about engagements in afghanistan and you have to all also understand is that the international community is seen by the afghans not as an occupation force was slowly i think in certain contexts perception may be changing but at the same time they're seen as as supporters as our partners to further develop the capacity of afghanistan and to further develop the afghan economy and the afghan security sector he said that the nato soldiers are not considered is not a patient with no gates and the russians the soviet soldiers when they were in afghanistan they were considered to be an occupation force and they were an occupation force but we've been hearing voices today that when the russians were there it was better that they did much more good things what this sounds of
occupying the country for afghanis. then the nato soldiers are doing is that true have you heard these words is clearly what is happening now in afghanistan in certain quarters perceptions are changing perceptions perceptions are changing because of various different activities for example the coalition forces. i go into afghan villages they go to africa and houses they go into afghan communities and search and do night raids and have various different you know activities that are not considered sensitive to the culture of afghanistan to the people of afghanistan so it's because of those kind of perceptions people are slowly started to look at the international community in different contexts but at the same time we also have to realize that because of the international community afghanistan is an a much better condition afghanistan has an infrastructure afghanistan has a parliament has had two presidential elections but at the same time i think
there's much more that could be done in this regard. many people and you've course read it here that it say there the have their government is. an efficient and corrupt is it true and there in your opinion should be done to make it more efficient less correct look it's understandable for people to criticize the afghan government because of corruption but you would want to specifically important for people to realize is that there are different levels of corruption fears corruption in the afghan government but at the same time there's a very serious corruption in the international community which also has to be addressed in also corruption particularly could be addressed with by systematic procedures and policies and regulations corruption by the west particularly in its contracting mechanism in various different levels it's completely seen in different contexts as compared to what the corruption is seen in afghanistan that is conducted by afghan officials or different organizations so there has to be
mechanisms developed for that an issue not just be a pressure point by the west against the afghan government. nobody ever could come against in history is there a secret that you can share is that what's so special about this country is it said it's of the mountains that that really makes it impossible to conquer afghanistan as a is is a proud nation afghanistan is a nation that has thousands of years of history dozens of transmissions the thousands ok but it is the same time you're to understand is that people the one thing that they care most about is their own sovereignty and what they really care about is their own pride in terms of living their life the way they want to live it and this is why i think some of these issues that we've been facing some of these voices that are being heard because slowly i think some of the elements of our culture are not really respected on the ground on certain levels. is there
a possibility to completely eliminate and kind of completely their organization in the first civil fusion in our lifetime or not but think absolutely it's possible but for that i think we need a change of mind most importantly change of mind of our own mind exactly not only of all one but at same time i think the measures that have been taken to deal with has primarily been of military nature when we need to do is start taking strategic measures to deal with that would we need to do is start going after the ideology which is the ideology that you know some will huntington talked about in the ninety's visit clash between you know the various different civilization as an afghan and someone who you know has been educated abroad i don't think there is a clash and we need to make a clear explanation of that do you think that the united states will escalate its anti terror operations in your region pakistan and afghanistan shall we actually
see more killings of al qaeda leaders in the region you know the afghans for the past almost six seven years have been called. only saying that terrorism is not in our villages terrorism is not in afghanistan you need to go across the border to see what's happening there and if you look at history if you look at the various senior leaders of al qaeda most of them have been found in pakistan and not really in caves and mountains most of them have been found in major cities like karachi lowell pindi and various other cities so if we're going to go after al qaeda we really need to be doing a lot of our work across the border in pakistan what makes radical islam such a powerful force in your region pakistan in afghanistan why why is it why is it so hard because people like people like the louden people that inspire. young boys away so it's you have to understand history and we have to understand what has led us to this point to the soviet occupation of afghanistan as a very serious example that we can learn from when the soviet union invaded
afghanistan there was a massive influx of jihadi smugglers sires in violent ideologies that were preached in our region thousands and thousands of moderate souls were created to brainwash people and it's the consequence of those kind of actions that we're seeing in our region. it is going to take significant amount of time to once again to educate these people but you know what is happening and especially in this context is wrong the way our culture has been changed the way these ideologies have been infos upon us that is going to take time and we should not automatically expect that things will change in the immediate future some of the servers say political scientists like yourself say that. pakistan may follow in the first steps of canst after the killing of that. there may be sort of a see even a civil war inside the country between between government and slowly radicals do
you think this is possible in the neighboring country no i doubt it i don't think yes i do agree that because the parties are very strong you know because. i believe that pakistan does face very serious challenges the serious challenges that come from militant extremism there is a challenge of the economy that has been suffering with very serious and high level of inflations but the same time i think it's the military that holds the country together and i don't think it's the military will allow the country to disintegrate . but the question that everybody is asking is that the pakistanis they they let some of bin ladden find refuge in a van in pakistan and he stayed there for for quite a long time and then the americans found him so do you think that's the reason for that were the the very complicated relations between between these secret services of the united states and pakistan when they first brought the ladder there and then they let americans go but i believe that and this is exactly where
president obama in the united states bin laden had a vast infrastructure in pakistan and without the infrastructure there's no way he could have survived now the house that bin laden was living in was established was built in two thousand and five so it is my assumption that he's been living there since two thousand and five and it's very difficult say two thousand six thousand and five two thousand and six so it's very difficult to assume that without any kind of support he's been living there you know thirty five kilometers from islam about so that's what really is as a very serious investigation needs to be conducted in terms of what kind of infrastructure existed in the region existed in the environment for us to see what are you know the possibilities of this kind of support in the region thank you thank you very much for being with us we unfortunately run out of time please come again whenever you must come to the banks and just a reminder that my guest today was kind of the director of the center for conflict